tendonitis, muscle inbalance

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Myxomatosis
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This post is more directed at the people who do alot of training... but feel free to add any suggestions or symthay :lol:

I have managed to give myself a bit of tendonitis on my right arm :( First time I've been injured properly :( :oops: :evil:

Now i know some of the causes are, over training, muscle imbalance...

Now I wasn't really over training, as it was nothing out of the ordinary (got it after four days rest). I've stopped climbing full stop after having a day's rest and then climb again... was still there... then I think I made it worse at work :(

So I am thinking it is more a muscle inbalance problem. (I have already suffered a bad back which I think was also a result in the same issues)

Anyone have any suggests on strenghting those opposite muslces in your arms? I already do quite a few push up's a week... anyone do anything else?

Allan

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Limburger_2
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The phsios I've seen about this have been telling me that apparently the theory of tennis/golfer's elbow being due to muscle imbalance is an old myth. Lateral and medial epicondylitis result from 2 things:

1. Repeatitive over use.

2. Poor tensite quality unevenly distributed along the path of the muscle fiber.

Apparently, the long muscle, instead of distributing load evenely along the entire path of the muscle length, is over used and you canfeel one spot getting very hard and the contractile quality changes. This concnetrates the load at both ends of the spot, and it is usually a musculotendonis junction that gets irritated, as this portion is not contractile and load poorly all by itself.

Youneed to understand the following factors will exacerbate your symptons:

1. Tight squeeze of the hand, especially bars with thin diameters. The reasons is because when you squeez yuor hand and fingers around an object such as a weight bar, both the wrist/finger flexors and the extensors (the muscles on the palmar side and dorsum sides of your forearm) have to CO-CONTRACT, otherwise the wrist would collape into a completely flexed or extended position such as what you would see in a patient with stroke or spinal cord injury. ANY contraction of the wrist extensors ANS supinantor would aggrevate your symtons.

2. Mentioned above, forearm supination, or the motion of turning your palm upwards, will aggrevat your sympton.

3. Of course, wrist extension will aggrevate the sx as well. This also happens EVERY time your hand is facing down, because the wrist extensors will have to fight gravity, and unless you have a neurological problem, your body will unconsicously fight the force of gravity by muscular contraction.

There 4 parameters you cannot over load; even just overloading one would exacerbate your sx:
1. Load, or force, weight, resistance.
2. Range of motion, every joint has its open pack and close pack positions. Some are more stressful to the jpint and some to the musculature, some to the capsule/ligaments, etc.
3. Duration. How long you do an activity without a break. How long is the break you take inbetween activities.
4. Velocity. How fast you do a certain acitivty.

Carpal Tunnel Syndron only loads the velocity and duration, and look at what damage it can do... Apparently if not addressed early, it can quickly become chronic.

Rest and ice is good, and if you can find a physio or osteo that know ART (Active Release Technique), that'd be ideal. It's supposed to be the best therapy.

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sally
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Stretch!

craigm
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what Sally said!

plus rest - like for more than just a few days. Get an ergonomic keyboard if you use a computer lots- they make a difference.

Stretching will also help if you have a bad back - yoga is good for all round flexibility.

What part of your arm is affected? wrist? elbow?

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Myxomatosis
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Thanks for the input....

Sally... I normally warm up and stretch before every session :D

Elbow, the nevre/tendon on the bottom of my funny bone (so closest to my body side. Just in that little gap seems to be the most pain (feels like a little burning sensation)

Yeah don't worry... rest is what I am doing now, Ive had five days off and plan on not climbing till end of next week (so two weeks). I have trained non stop from the start of last spring (so over 12 months) without a break. I guess its time for a few weeks rest before Summer, I have been doing a cycle plane training since June/July which also seems to be at its end now (endurance all gone but strength way up)....

I just want to prevent any more injury's, so any ideas into incorporating some things into my next cycle will help :)

Al

PS: Back was work related and muscle so healed up OK. Still managed to try lead Safety Buff with the help of a voltarn :lol:

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seatbeltpants
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hey man,

i'd thoroughly recommend two things - first would be to pick up a copy of "one move too many" (http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=478). i think it was sally who i saw recommending it on this board, so i picked up a copy from bivouac in wellington. great book, loads of info, written by physios / doctors who are climbers. deals with all the common climber overuse injuries and gives what i at least hope is useful advice on dealing with them. rest, stretching, and building up the opposing muscles seems to be the gist (though whether the opposing muscle imbalance thing is a myth may be up for debate?).

assuming it does have some effect, reverse wrist curls (holding a dumbell palm down across your lap with the hand hanging over your knee, and doing wrist curls up from there) and stretching an elastic band over your fingers and opening them (reverse of sqeezing a ball) seem to be the main exercises. lots of stretching of both wrist flexors and extensors too.

the second recommendation is to get yerself to a physiotherapist if at all possible, preferably one that knows something about climbing. identifying the problem properly is a good start to fixing it.

best of luck - i've had a simlar problem for a while and am slowly dealing with it. in my limited experience the worst thing to do is not take it seriously.

steve

sally
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Aaron had tendonitis (from Hammering) and the Physio gave him acupuncture which seemed to be the turning point.

elgrande
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latest research recommends the use of slow eccentric exercise for elbow tendonopathy as well as static stretching. Accupuncture is also good as well!

Bonjour biloute, heh!

craigm
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"elgrande" wrote:
slow eccentric exercise for elbow tendonopathy

translation for the non osteopathically inclined???? :?

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DanP
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eccentric = unloading phase. "negatives" in gym speak .
elbow tendonopathy = elbow tendon dysfunction/disease @ elbow.
slow = well, you seem to have that one covered, craig ;-)

hmm, i actually had a similar recommendation recently for forearm tendosynovitis (sp? i.e. inflamation of sheath that tendons run through). initially a lot of ice and rest. then massage before use and ice after. and then palm-down backwards wrist curls with a focus on slow, controlled lowering

but myxomatosis - go see a physio. don't wait for someone on here to tell you what you want to hear, or what worked for them and their own injury.

call around and see if you can a physio who knows what climbing involves. you might get lucky. for a different injury years ago, i had one immediately caution me on too much crimping on plastic. and he gave me some great stretches that really helped.

seatbeltpants
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"DanP" wrote:
palm-down backwards wrist curls with a focus on slow, controlled lowering

sweet, i might try this myself - i've been concentrating on the "pull" of the exercise rather than the lower. always good to have some new ideas to add to the mix.

"DanP" wrote:
see if you can a physio who knows what climbing involves. you might get lucky.

i totally agree. as much as i love my physio she doesn't seem to understand climbing and the advice she gave was rubbish - led to more problems than it solved.

steve

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"DanP" wrote:

but myxomatosis - go see a physio. don't wait for someone on here to tell you what you want to hear, or what worked for them and their own injury.

Yeah so true D... but the old equation of Physio = money + time = Last resort :lol:

Im into my 2nd week now, have held off the urges to climb all weekend. If its not better by Friday ill start looking for some professional help :)

Massage seems to be the go from some other guys at the gym with the same thing 8)

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tanadog
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re physio

if you make it an accident, then acc pays = 12 free sessions

"I was climbing and my foot slipped and I got a sharp pain in my elbow" or something...

Myxomatosis
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"tanadog" wrote:
re physio

if you make it an accident, then acc pays = 12 free sessions

"I was climbing and my foot slipped and I got a sharp pain in my elbow" or something...

Yeah but gotta take time off work :(

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tanadog
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no, only for the treatment sessions... unless yr work includes making yr elbow sore?

Myxomatosis
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"tanadog" wrote:
no, only for the treatment sessions... unless yr work includes making yr elbow sore?

Funny you say that... my elbow wasn't actually that bad until work on Monday morning... then BAM and I knew it just got twice as bad.

Took Friday off and had all weekend resting.. still the same today :(

I just have had bad experinces with Doctors... last time for my back had to wait three hours in pain because some guy cut his hand... FFS I cant move it hurts that much... then they sting with me $60 for drugs that I used twice.

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hobo_climber
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"Myxomatosis" wrote:
I just have had bad experinces with Doctors... last time for my back had to wait three hours in pain because some guy cut his hand...

Doctors will generally treat those in most dire need first. you can't die from back pain (I know this for sure :wink: ) but you can die from blood loss from a cut hand. wierd but logical...
I stongly recomend seeing a physio ASAP. your in hamiltron right??? i can recomend a physio i know up there who actually climbs herself if ya want, so she will no doubt know where you are comming from. just flick me a pm.

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Myxomatosis
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"hobo_climber" wrote:
"Myxomatosis" wrote:
I just have had bad experinces with Doctors... last time for my back had to wait three hours in pain because some guy cut his hand...

Doctors will generally treat those in most dire need first. you can't die from back pain (I know this for sure :wink: ) but you can die from blood loss from a cut hand. wierd but logical...
I stongly recomend seeing a physio ASAP. your in hamiltron right??? i can recomend a physio i know up there who actually climbs herself if ya want, so she will no doubt know where you are comming from. just flick me a pm.

:wink: I know they treat worst case first... but three hours man!!! :lol: Nah its ok,,, just my bad luck...

Im in Auckland.... our next Extreme Boulder Series is on the 17th.. I might rest until the 15th... Was meant to go away this weekend but Its probably far to early

Thanks for all the advice... trying the voltaren/massage route... so far 30% improvement in one night :)

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hobo_climber
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Quote:
Im in Auckland

Im deeply sorry for your predicament :wink: in that case I also know of a very good, 'knows what climbing is' sports physio. in fact a whole practise full of them :shock: if you still want outside help.

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Myxomatosis
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"hobo_climber" wrote:
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Im in Auckland

Im deeply sorry for your predicament :wink: in that case I also know of a very good, 'knows what climbing is' sports physio. in fact a whole practise full of them :shock: if you still want outside help.

Hey thanks for the offer man :) Ill give you a PM if I get worse.

I think the voltaren massage's are the way to go for future reference :) Starting to get some strength back :)

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furryfren
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So Mike has one less competitor ...

MrBungle
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From the location of the pain you have indicated in your elbow it might be worth thinking about Ulnar Tunnel Syndrome (or cubital tunnel). Does the pain lead to lack of grip strength and numbness or tingling in your ring finger and pinky?

This can get worse and I have heard of people who have had to get surgery to remove the Ulnar nerve from the cubital tunnel in the elbow to fix it, so keep a close eye on it. You wouldn't want that to be the last resort.

I've also heard that there has been some good results with trigger point therapy on the Latissimus Dorsi (your lats) and and the medial head of the triceps brachii so it's worth a thought.

I'd just re-emphasize what many other post have said though and try to see a good physio,

Good luck.

Myxomatosis
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MrB.... no tinglies in my fingers :) I think its overly serious, I stopped straight after it starting hurting :)

FurryFern.... Tell Mike not to worry, Ill be there Friday... going for 151 points.

Had a very lite session on Saturday and its still OK (didn't hurt anything). Should be good for Friday.

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Myxomatosis
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Its nearly gone but still niggling away.... not much pain but still not 100% power

I have gotten to the stage where its physio time (going to aussie to climb for Xmas)... anyone know a good one (that understands climbing a little) and roughly in the Auckland Central, Southern and Eastern regions?

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hobo_climber
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Try "eastern physiotherapy" in pakaranga. they're pretty damm good. sports physios so they should have a good grasp of what your after in terms of climbing. (pun fully intended 8) )

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2. suck...

Myxomatosis
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Ok...... just a little update and some real advice if someone searchs "tendonitis"

1. See a Physio, its free (if you fill out your ACC properly) and they are actually know shit. I lasted another week before I saw her and have been seeing her nearly twice a week for the last two months :lol: :lol:

2. Rest and rest and more rest... Rest is not much fun... it is more paintful than the actual injury.

3. Don't rush back. Just because you feel good climbing 18's for two weeks doesn't mean it has gone away. You really have to rehab your way back in, climbing for short periods of time on easy stuff.

As for the update... had one and half weeks climbing glory and now injured my left arm... so another two months out for me :roll: But we are starting to think its more work than climbing.

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elgrande
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Bonjour biloute, heh!

Myxomatosis
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Thanks for the link :)

BUT... my injury is in the bicept and not the forearm 8)

I will also add that doing the wrist curls and workouts only help when you are passed the worst of the pain... going straight from pain to weights is not a good idea

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