crampons steel?
26 August 2011 - 3:57am
Some might find this entertaining..it's long.
http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/08/crampon-durability-stainless-or.html
"The reason behind this particular blog and its information/opinions offered is simple, losing a crampon on route or having a crampon failure while in use can be serious. Fatally serious. That reality bought me to the obvious...a closer look at the quality of the steel used and different manufacturing techniques."
27 August 2011 - 10:43pm
#2
Thank you Dane for your thoughtful review. Your knowledge and experience with all the modern climbing gear shines through here.
I have always been dubious of the Stainless Sabertooth crampons since they narrowed the model down in order to make it seem lighter than the previous model. I deliberately chose the previous model with the silver coating because it was a wider a more decent crampon to go with my size 13 boots.
Having been climbing since 1985 I am well aware that a bit of surface rust makes no difference to a crampons performance. We did have issues with stress fractures in ChromeMolly Crampons back then. I remember finding stress fractures on my Grivel 2F crampons after 5 years of very hard use, but they were the lightest crampons at the time.
We also did have cases of picks breaking during technical ice climbing here in New Zealand. I broke a straight tubular Hummingbird pick off at the base during a repeat ascent of the first grade 6 ice route here, that Bill Denz had climbed in 1971 using primitive tools. In addition there are numerous reports of the picks of Mountain Tech axes breaking here.
I notice you refer to the strengths of forged metal, and i have read of many examples of laser cut picks breaking. I have not read about a case of forged picks breaking. Grivel use forged metal in the heads of their technical axes, and they seem confident in that metal type because the picks are not replaceable as a modular replacement.
As a simple consumer it seems logical that metal products which are smooth and shiney have doubled in price due to the polishing process.
If we were manufacturing our own crampons or ice tools then they would appear rough with lots of machining or filing marks. We would feel suspicious of anything too smooth or too polished.
A crampon constructed showing the hammer marks of a professional that I could trust would be far more valuable to me than some product smooth and shiney that was being promoted by marketers, as opposed to real climbers
Dane, here in NZ we do not respect small Arms in any way at all. Such items are designed solely to kill other people. I am aware of the way moving stainless parts galling together instead of sliding smoothly. I have a Ruger all weather rifle that does this.
However I repect your opinions about climbing equipment.
If you were to design a crampon what features would your choose or reject? I assume you would include forged front points like are already used on the technical Grivel crampons?
I would be very interested in what you have to say because as an experienced climber I suspect you would be able to design the perfect technical crampon, and in fact would like to if you had the chance.
29 August 2011 - 8:20pm
#4
Anybody here use Simond Vampire crampons? I've noticed for a while that they use stainless steel in the frontpoints, but CroMo in the frame. I suspect that there are not very many people climbing on them, but has anybody heard any anecdotes about poor performance in their simond frontpoints?
30 August 2011 - 11:16am
#5
Hi, I am Glenn, and my company iclimb.co.nz is the importer and online retailer of Simond mountaineering equipment in NZ and Aus.
First, sadly I have to start by saying that there are a couple of people (namely Peter Dickson (the ghost who walks) and Graham Johnson) who have written negative things on the Internet about Simond products, not because they have actually climbed with those products but because they have personal issues with me. Their commenting about Simond gear has been predictable. So, although everyone is naturally entitled to their own opinions about gear, please keep possible motives in mind when reading anything they have to say about Simond products.
However, you don't care about that -- more importantly, what about the crampons? Our experience has been the opposite of what was expressed in Dane's article. In fact, the most frequent comment we receive from people who have used the Simond Vampire crampons is how sharp the stainless steel front points have remained compared with other (chromoly) crampon points.
I (very minimally) filed the front points of my Simond Vampires for the first time this month, having used them since 2008. The same comment about the sharpness durability was made by our sponsored climber Ben Dare, who has used Simond Vampires extensively on many new mixed routes in the Remarkables and elsewhere. Additionally, Ben was recently in Nepal on an expedition, after which he described the performance of the Simond Anaconda axes and Vampire crampons as: "For all the savings in weight, the performance and durability of the Simond Anaconda axes and Vampire crampons are never compromised. The gear can take a real hiding and still perform at a top level."
Here are some online reviews for the Simond Vampires that I found that specifically mention durability:
http://www.buzzillions.com/reviews/simond-vampire-speed-bipoint-crampon-...
So why the difference between what we have experienced with the Simond Vampire crampons and what Dane's post discusses for stainless steel points in general? It is something we'll look into in greater detail and we will put the information on our website. But, there are a couple of things I can say immediately. Simond were the first manufacturer to introduce stainless steel, and they did this because, at the time, they had a sister company with major expertise in manufacturing high-performance products with stainless steel. Hence they were able to use that expertise in designing and manufacturing stainless steel components for axes and crampons. I therefore speculate that Simond have known what they have been doing from the very start, and the other manufacturers who have copied them haven't had the same knowledge base. It has also helped that the chief designer at Simond is a materials engineer. Maybe that is the reason, maybe it is something else. Maybe it depends where some products are being made (Simond still make their own products in their own factory in Chamonix, rather than outsourcing). But we will give a definitive answer soon.
We always want more feedback on the products we sell (even more so if people have any problems), so please feel free to email any comments to me at glennpennycook@iclimb.co.nz.
Finally, I read a rumour elsewhere on the Internet that Simond wasn't manufacturing anymore. The company is in fact still going strong and we even had Ben visit the factory last month.
Glenn
30 August 2011 - 1:45pm
#7
Hi Dane, I am not sure where the "non-specific" info in my post is that you are referring to. And I didn't even discuss manufacturing methods or materials, so I don't know how you can judge my knowledge as being good, poor or otherwise. I simply gave as much feedback about people using stainless-steel front points as I had available, and some background into their first use (which you might not be intersted in but that doesn't bother me). And I plainly state where I was speculating. I have nothing against what was written in your blog at all. I was simply stating that, in your blog, you say that stainless steel doesn't remain sharp, whereas I have found that personal experience and customer feedback has found the opposite for the Simond Vampires. As I said, I will look into this variation in performance -- by asking Simond how their stainless steel manufacturing processes and design may differ from those of other manufacturers, and I will put this (specific) info on iclimb.co.nz. Is this ok with you?
30 August 2011 - 2:46pm
#9
Dane,
I could write a post about crampon materials displaying my knowledge or lack there of, but I prefer first to ask questions of people who are a lot more knowledgable than me (materials engineers designing and testing crampons) and then make that information available to others by putting it on our website. As I keep saying, this is what I am in the process of doing.
I am completely aware that Simond have never made a fully stainless-steel crampon. I said that Simond were the first to introduce stainless steel, and then I referred to their stainless-steel front points.
If you have an issue with Simond front points being brought up on this thread, you need to take it up with Graham, not me.
In any event, your blog was entitled "Crampon durability - stainless or chromoly?" not "Should we be worried about BD stainless steel crampons?" Likewise, your conclusion was "Stainless steel might be an upgrade for your kitchen appliances but it is not an upgrade when it comes to a sharp kitchen knife or ice climbing equipment. There are simply too many trade offs to not question the use of stainless in crampons. It is all a matter of trust. Spend your money wisely. My money (and boots) are now on Chromoly."
I therefore think it justified for anyone, in response to your blog, to comment on any type of crampon, whether BD or another brand and whether completely stainless steel or partly stainless steel.
If you don't like people referencing your article, why write it?
30 August 2011 - 8:11pm
#11
Whoa - thanks for the detailed response, Dane - I had a look at the link - I really don't know enough about metallurgy to make any sort of infrance from the data, but I believe you. Thanks. I asked the question becuase it was seemingly at odds with what other manufactures (CAMP, BD) are doing, and at odds with what you've been saying on coldthistle. it's clear now, cheers.
I've never used the vampire crampon, but I have handled it in the shop. My opinions (which I haven't included here, and are irrelevant in this case) on Simond come from having used all of their technical tools, and many of their carabiners as well as various bits of protection.
30 August 2011 - 8:11pm
#12
Umm, I don't have any opinion on Simond products at all, except that they do not appear to be cutting edge products in the same way that their competitors are, e.g. Petzl, Grivel, Black Diamond. My impression of Simond products is not necessarily negative, because price is always an important factor, and Petzl gear is so expensive here through the retailers, as too is Black Diamond gear.
Also, unlike my detractor, I would never let personal issues influence my opinion of gear, just like I would not let personal feelings get in the way of judging the relative merits of what someone has to say about hard climbing relative to the hard climbing that they have actually accomplished.
Gear is gear, climbing is climbing, talk is cheap...so shut up and climb.
1 September 2011 - 1:35am
#15
Murphy's law never fails... I fly to America, where I would normally still have internet access. But, then hurricane Irene hits 2 days after I arrive, we loose power for 3 days, and this thread gets going in my absence.
This is a very good discussion, and thank you all for keeping it for the most part non-personal and technical!
I will repeat Dane's comment though, that it needs to remain non-personal. Glenn and Peter, you have both had your pokes at each other, and I will leave them for now, but if I see any more I will immediately remove the entire offending post. No comment, no edit, nothing, just gone. Got it!?
1 September 2011 - 1:36pm
#16
Graham
I've been using Simond Vampires for the past 3 Winters now, having spent the previous 30 odd wearing the original Chouinard Rigids. What I've found is that the stainless front points do tend to become blunt more quickly than the other points, but not excessively so. That's weighing up that you climb on the front points, but also spend a fair bit of time walking over rocky bits on the rest of the points. Also, I probably spend more time scratching on granite than climbing on ice. All in all, I've been sharpening the front points a couple of times a season, which I think is reasonable.
The Vampires aren't a complicates crampon, and to me - given that I know nothing about the metallurgy involved - seem a reasonably robust item. My only real niggle is that the clamp system is a bit fiddly, but that's probably a boot/crampon compatability issue. But it a very basic clamp system.
I went to the Vampires because I've used Simond tools pretty much exclusively since the Chacal was first introduced, and have always been fairly impressed with the way the metal on the picks stood up the abuse they were given - both back in Scotland and here. I hoped the crampons would be the same.
Would I get them again? Possibly not, having made the big jump from the original rigid crampon into the Vampires, and noticed the difference, I think that I would probably look at whether something else would give me more help. But, I'm generally happy with both the quality and performance.
This what you were after?
Al
1 September 2011 - 2:11pm
#17
Thanks for your good work SBA
1 September 2011 - 5:28pm
#18
Thanks Al - I was curious because Dane had been talking about how stainless was not the best choice of material for crampons, and both BD and CAMP have used stainless in the frame, but stuck with harder-wearing chromo for their frontpoints, whereas Simond went the opposite direction. I was curious to see if anybody had any information on their performance, just from a curiosity perspective. Cheers for that anaylsis.
I've actually got a pair of old chouinard/salewa rigids but I've never climbed on them. I really ought to pull them out and give them ago. I also climbed on Chacals years ago (but not that many years ago - my old university climbing club had an extensive collection of ice tools from the 70's-90's). I remember thinking that they were better than the FKW's and had a nice swing.
1 September 2011 - 6:52pm
#20
I had some Chacals but preferred Hummingbirds more
1 September 2011 - 7:25pm
#21
yeah Dane, I cant say much more except please never let us forget the good old days.
Footfangs were a profound revelation to me for how the felt on vertical ice, but too heavy to climb a real mountain with. I used the Messner scissor crampon back then, which got me up 5's and 6's. My partner had the Choinard Rigid then, but i beleive he got a stress fracture in it.
I always have fond memories of the Hummingbird tubular pick because one time when soloing a new route I was forced to do a swinging pendulum on it. I doubt if any other picks at the time (early 80's) could have stood up to such abuse. I broke that same tubular pick later on on the the Balfour Face of Mt Tasman.
1 September 2011 - 7:26pm
#22
Dane
Sorry, I've misled you a bit, I actually went through 3 pairs of them over that time, the final pair are still full of life, I just felt the need to move on. They've now been bequeathed to my son. The first pair simply wore out, the second pair broke, and I really had to struggle to find the 3rd pair almost 20 years ago.
Yep, rigid boots and rigid crampons were the way to go on straight ice, used to wear the old Salewa hinged crampons with the downward angled points before the Chouinards, and never got used to them scrunching down the ice for a couple of inches before biting properly when you stood on the front points. The Chouinards stopped all that. Funnily enough, now I have vertical front points on my crampons, I've had to get used to the odd wee scrunch before biting again..... Progress?
1 September 2011 - 7:43pm
#23
Speaking of the Devil here are some Vatours just come up for auction here on Trademe.
I know nothing about this tool or this trader, I have never used Simond gear as far as I can remember. I am just presenting this information because it is relevent to the thread.
2 September 2011 - 9:02am
#25
I went iceclimbing with a chap in footfangs in 2008. He kicked my as$! I was half amused and half impressed.
2 September 2011 - 11:14am
#26
I was just having a look on the CAMP website - they've got half-tube picks for the Tiburon tools http://www.camp-usa.com/products/ice-axes/closeout/closeout-tiburon-picks-17002-17003-17004-17005.asp Those tools came out in the early 2000's - a pretty nice, if not asthetically pleasing, tool. It climbed pretty well . Tube picks are not so far in the past...
These look like the old salewa scissor crampons - only $20: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Camping-outdoors/Climbing-adventure/Other/auction-404303104.htm
2 September 2011 - 11:59am
#27
Hey,
Has anyone on here climbed with the AlpX? If so whats your thoughts.
Thanks
2 September 2011 - 3:34pm
#28
Yes indeed Graham
Those are the old Salewa's Dane and I were reminiscing about, obselete in 1975, require nerves of steel to use on steep ice. However, some very impressive routes were put up using those. That pair look barely used !
2 September 2011 - 5:14pm
#29
I actually have a pair of adjustable strapons that look the same as these. Never been sharpened in 25 years because I thought blunter was safer for snow and mixed climbing.
I've done perhaps 20 new routes and first ascents them, including the FA of the South Face of Mt D'Archiac.
I believe that face still hasn't received a 2nd ascent, which is a shameful reflection on the state of our climbing here.
I also climbed 70 degree ice in tramping boots an the start of the Denz Direct on Mt Cook in them to take a look at the "Gates of Steel' rock buttress as a potential solo. Climbing back down again was a frigin nightmare.
You're welcome to try them on for size Graham, and I can do you a mates rate for them...
2 September 2011 - 7:46pm
#30
Hi Graham - jumping back to your question regarding the Simond Vampires, I`ve been using a pair since the beginning of last winter and have been really stoked with how they have preformed. I guess some people may view my opinon on this as being slightly biased, but after using a couple of different pairs of crampons (BD sabretooths and Grivel G14s) over the last few years I can`t see myself changing back in a hurry.
As far as the durability of the SS front points goes my experience has been been slightly different from what Al commented on above and I`ve found that I have to sharpen them less often than I did with the G14s previously. I tend to climb mainly mixed and thin ice routes which can be pretty hard on gear, and I don`t quite swing and kick as hard as I used to, so it could also be a reflection on what and how I climb. But on the whole I`ve found they are great to climb in and hold an edge really well.
I think you can get hold of a `demo` pair from iclimb if you want to try them out and take them for a test drive.
Cheers - Ben
2 September 2011 - 8:35pm
#31
Thanks ben - I wasn't asking because I'm in the market for new crampons (at least not that style of crampon)- I was simply curious because using stainless in just the frontpoints was opposite to what everybody else was doing. Sounds like the jury's still out on durability.
Peter, that's very generous of you to sell me your 25 year old, never sharpend, very well used crampons for "mates rates"!
2 September 2011 - 8:48pm
#32
You're welcome Graham, and I can even upgrade them with stainless nuts and bolts so they look better than an old one.
On a positive note Dane has updated his blog to discuss the Simond Vampire crampon front points, and he sounds pretty happy with them.
http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/08/simond-climbing-equipment.html
3 September 2011 - 1:31pm
#34
In ben's defense, Dane, the community down on these little islands is *tiny* enough for just about all of us to know exactly who he is, but yes, when a sponsored climber is making statements about a product he/she should be very clear about his or her relationship with that product. Otherwise, as you say, people are likely to read it as sponsored climber product drivel.
I'm very curious to see BD's response to all this - when the crampons first came out, I thought "BD's a responsible company, with a large number of excellent climbers on staff. They will have tested these, found them to be good and then released them". I still think this, but the stainless vs. chromo will make me pause before I buy my next pair of crampons. I do recall your blog being more positive towards BD stainless crampons pre-sabertooth breakage. That's not to say that crampon breakage is BD-specific, or stainless specific - I've heard of more than one case of Darts breaking.
3 September 2011 - 3:18pm
#35
Graham. everything breaks. Having the front half of your crampons fall off and then loose a crampon because of it, is not a "normal" break. Never has been. The old Chouinard rigids for example? Break'um and strap 'um back on and then get off the hill. Annoying but not deadly generally. One might wonder though what Tobin Sorenson was using on Alberta. A lot of stuff at the base after the rescue, crampons weren't part of the litter. When we were in the Grivel factory Alexis pulled out a broken pair of G12s. But obvious to me you could have gotten off the mountain with them as well. Different and the common way, that crampons break.
Darts? A few front points have been reported but the crampons stays on and of the Dartwins generally only loose one point. More likely the stainless front bail that work hardens in use. They break. Seen enough of those break in Canada especially on long winter seasons and a multi season use of the Dart. Easy enough fix, replace the stainless front bails every season if you climb a lot on them. I use that same bail on my own crampons. (Grivel BD and Petzl) But most are more likely to wear out a Dart before they work harden a stainless bail.
But if the bail fails no question you will loose a crampon and that will SUCK!
Worth noting though it is a stainless bail. BD's bail is plated chromoly...on every crampons and a bigger dia. wire.
Not seen a Petzl crampon body break though.
I have promoted the stainless BD Saber and Serac in the past. Once they started breaking (mid last winter) I asked BD...directlly and in private... about the issue. Their spokesman, to my shock, flatly denies any problem, in private and later in public. All the while quietly replacing the cracked or broken ones. I've documented enough broken BD crampons on my own to worry me. The added issue of what I consider unacceptable wear on BD's stainless finally drove me to make the comments in public, as BD never will. I won't climb on their plate ss crampons now because I think they are unreliable.
Everyone should make their own decision. I only hope that it is an informed decision. This morning I sent a buddy in Cham an email about the breakage. He is (was, now) climbing in the clip version of the Serac. He had no idea that any BD crampon had ever broken. Imagine his surprize if the front half of his crampons had popped while on the Shroud? Which is where he was last week.
Here is the real deal on crampons or my take on it anyay. Break one walking on a glacier, no big deal. Break one solong high on the Ginat ice pitches and you're likely fooked unless you are really good at cutting steps. Tough but not impossible, if you got the chance.
My thought is we (climbers) are all in this together. I wouldn't send you up the Ginat knowing there would be an big afternoon snow storm. Nor would I loan you a pair of crampons that I think are unrelaible. Forums or a blog are just a bigger version of our tiny community. In the grand scheme of things aren't we just looking out for each other?
I have no vested interest in any hardware company and can only share my thoughts and experience. I'd bet BD thinks both are shite right now. As did Petzl last fall. But Petzl pulled the tools world wide, fixed what I considered a minor design flaw and took a year to do it. Good on them! All the while I kept climbing on the Nomic and new Ergos. Imagine what I think of a company who denies there might even be a problem and then fails to inform the public?
Stainless BD owners are still finding cracked BD crampons in their hands. Those incidents get back to me one at a time simply because of the blog. Better to find a broken crampons at home on the couch than half a rope out when one of your crampon goes missing suddenly. 
3 September 2011 - 7:13pm
#36
I won't climb on their plate ss crampons now because I think they are unreliable.
Graham have you checked your stainless sabertooths yet? I know you have a pair.
I have some slightly older second hand Chouinard fully adjustable strapon crampons that I personally guarantee will get up any route ever climbed here up intil 1999. Graham they should keep you going well up to 2050, then you can hand them on to your Grandson one day with pride.
I'm so glad I've got the silver ChroMo Sabertooths. I chose wisely, even though I will never be able to climb as well as Graham. I knew from my experience with sharpening knives that stainless is simply too soft. If stainless gets blunt just from cutting up a leg of venison, then how could one trust those sharp egdes on crampons when we are putting our bodyweight plus another 15kg of pack weight onto them?
Glenn, I always pay attention to your knowledeable remarks. I took a closer look at the Simond gear you import and I thought all the crampon models were excellent I really like the assymetric design. Previously I had just taken a cursory look at the ice tools, but on closer look the crampons look excellent.
Dane, I just read the review on your blog of the new Salewa boot technology, where the steel shank can be switched over from flexible walking mode, to a stiffer climbing mode.
What is your opinion? Surely instead of adding steel inside a boot that will be strapped onto a steel crampon, surely wouldn't it make more sense to have a rigid steel crampon that one could strap a flexible boot onto? Perhaps the crampon itself could incorporate a flexible walking mode, and a stiffer climbing mode? Why didn't anybody think of that in the 80's lol.
Your thoughts are always welcome and respected here, whether positive or negative.
4 September 2011 - 9:43pm
#37
Stainless BD owners are still finding cracked BD crampons in their hands. Those incidents get back to me one at a time simply because of the blog.
Dane, how many cracked or broken stainless steel BD crampons are you aware of?
3 September 2011 - 8:53pm
#38
I agree with you Dane, high on the Ginat in a snowstorm is bad enough without having to think about breaking crampons! I would bet not many people down here know about BD (or any other brand for that matter) breakages either. I don't have a pair of ss sabertooths - all I own at this point is the orange chroMo Cyborgs. I think I bought them the first year they came out - seemed like a massive upgrade from the Bionics. I sold my chromo sabertooths during a "I need to sell this shit so I can eat" period. I may think about buying some older sabertooths in the future.
Peter - rest assured you're a better climber than I am and have pushed the limits way farther than I can hope to! Wait until you see me climb - your complements will be quickly retracted!
3 September 2011 - 9:19pm
#39
I agree with you Dane, high on the Ginat in a snowstorm is bad enough without having to think about breaking crampons! I would bet not many people down here know about BD (or any other brand for that matter) breakages either. I don't have a pair of ss sabertooths - all I own at this point is the orange chroMo Cyborgs. I think I bought them the first year they came out - seemed like a massive upgrade from the Bionics. I sold my chromo sabertooths during a "I need to sell this shit so I can eat" period. I may think about buying some older sabertooths in the future.
Peter - rest assured you're a better climber than I am and have pushed the limits way farther than I can hope to! Wait until you see me climb - your complements will be quickly retracted!
Whatever Graham, keep your gayborgs, I just want a good handgun from Dane now...
4 September 2011 - 1:09pm
#41
Cool Dane, I look forward to the full review.
Please mention the width of the boots relative to other models in your future review. I had a stress fracture from wearing Koflach Ultras' that crushed my toe bones together across the ball of the foot.
Many Kiwi climbers seem to have wider feet than is the norm in Europe. Clydesdales vs thoroughbred show pony's I suppose...
4 September 2011 - 9:19pm
#42
And likely just an amerikan thing but here we are generally a little skeptical when a sponsored climber joins the conversation in support of their sponsor. Even more so when they fail to mention they are sponsored right up front.
Maybe it's just a Kiwi thing but.....
when a Simond climbing gear importer talks about "our sponsored climber Ben Dare" earlier in a forum thread, and then a forum user called "Ben Dare" comes along and writes a post in the exact same thread where he talks about his views on Simond crampons and how his opinion on them will of course be viewed as biased, you'd kinda hope that people will be able to put 2 and 2 together without too much difficulty. 
Cesca
4 September 2011 - 9:44pm
#43
Stainless BD owners are still finding cracked BD crampons in their hands. Those incidents get back to me one at a time simply because of the blog.
Dane, how many cracked or broken stainless steel BD crampons are you aware of?
5 September 2011 - 12:20pm
#45
Hi guys - interesting stuff all round here.
Dane Ive got a pair of simond pirranas that are in good nick and just laying round....... not sure how keen you are for them, or if it is the right model, but just thought id let ya know.
hope that worked, Steve
5 September 2011 - 7:47pm
#47
Sleake, I had a pair of CAMP Hypercouloir tools that look exactly like yours, except they were flourescent pink and lime green. I bought them at Chamonix in 1987 and they were state of the art at the time. The bent shaft was a true game changing concept, however it was still not radical enough to protect knuckles on steep ice. But the worst thing about tools from this era was that the steeply inclined pick had no clearance for reaching over bulging ice formations. Additionally the steeply drooped pick did not provide enough reach if you were trying to hook onto rock. I spent all my time having to use my adze.
I sold my pair last year for NZ$150 and being loyal to them for so long I felt like my heart had been ripped out, however my my replacement tools are so light they seem like childrens toys. I still cant them seriously as technical ice climbing tools...
What I hate about them is they are only 50cm, whereas 55cm suits me better seeing that I am a 6'2" 187cm Kiwi mountaineer. Also what I hate about them is that they are not comfortable to hold on the head as a walking axe. From my experience if an ice tool is not comfortable to carry for a Grand Traverse of Mt Cook, then it is useless, despite it's technical capabilities.
I hope this makes sense to you.
7 September 2011 - 11:29am
#49
That's a good article Dane, a blast from the past. I remember thinking that BD Rages were the epitomy of ice tools back in 2000 (I didn't start climbing really until 2002, but was collecting catalogues and reading magazines from about 1999 or so - yes, I was a dork). The first tools I owned were Black Prophets... still regret selling them. kind of neat to see the state of the market just before some major changes - the Quark and original Cobra (I guess the cobra was covered in that article). Interesting that Trango isn't amongst them there - they were making good tools at the time, and I think were distributing CharletMoser in the states - I would have thought they'd have had a presence across the pond.
27 March 2012 - 7:47pm
#50
Climber is a British Magazine....
Interesting, you made me examine my BD S/S Crampon front points with the magnifying glass at any rate.